I don’t proclaim to be a hardcore raider, but I love to raid, it gives me a sense of achievement and obviously some fat loots. But recently I have begun thinking back to TBC and the awe in which I found myself when running around Stormwind or Shattrath gazing at the epic clad players in a rainbow of colours, sometimes even running after a Rogue with Warglaives to get another look.
It dawned on me that firstly WOTLK armour is shite and the rehashed double colours tier sets are just lazy, but this post isn’t really about that, its more to do with the fact that both now and in the next patch players who have never even stepped foot in a raid will be found running about in Tier 9, and the question… is this fair?
For me WoW has always been about progression, I loved the fact that my “lock guru” had Tier 6 wings and super duper kit, it was something for me to aspire to and respect.
I had no issues that whilst FE were progressing through Karazhan and Zul’Aman using these raids to gear up to tackle Gruu’ls and Magtheridon’s Lair, the hardcore raiding guilds were in Black Temple, Mount Hyjal and Sunwell. We were all being awarded accordingly. But we don’t see that now, Naxxramus, Eye of Eternity and Obsidian Sanctum (bar 3 drakes) are all passed over and forgotten in favour of some heroic and daily grinding a VoA or 3 then straight into TOTC.
With the new patch we will see Heroics dropping Triumph badges and the Daily Heroic giving us Frost Badges so for 210 Triumph badges (around 10 heroics a day for 5 days) the newest level 80 player can be clad in full Tier 9 gear and for an extra couple of days have the rings, trinkets and other items to match.
I’m a strong believer in the “you get out what you put in” ethos and hate the fact that those people who really put the time in aren’t truly getting the recognition they deserve.
Now this isn’t a post pitting casual and hardcore players against each other, its not even about the relative easiness of WOTLK raids, what I am trying to say here is that I am perfectly happy if the case was true to not have access to the best loot available within the game or even the endgame content. I don’t play to the same extent as Hardcore raiders, so why should I expect to have and achieve the same things?
Being a casual player does not mean I want content made trivial simply because I either do not have the desire or the time to spend a many hours a week working on beating the endgame content. In fact, in many ways being a casual player demands more dedication, having limited time to invest in the game means I expect more from the time I play, which pushes me to be better and better in what I choose to do.
The simple fact is, I miss the sense of progression we saw in TBC, I miss the fuzzy shouty vent deafening roars on Vent getting that new item rather than “meh another epic, chuck it in the bag with the rest of them.” I miss doing /who Warlocomotif seeing him in Sunwell and feeling all proud that I knew someone clearing that content.
That all be told, the next instalment is yet to come, and I ,amongst many, wait with baited breath to see if so much about what we love about this game is restored with Icecrown and the next expansion.
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First of all, you’ve done a great job =)
Thing is, there are alot of players who don’t have the time to do raids and get lots of gear or achievements and stuff, and just want to play to relax, have fun, and they find looking around places interesting. And for alot of people, raiding is hard. But some people really want to see what Ulduar is like or what Kel’Thuzad looks like. But I do think epics aren’t special and they should be harder to get. For example, there could be 2 difficulties for raids – a casual, which is quite quick and not too hard, only drops blues, and harder, which drops a few epics and is quite hard and long. But epics really don’t feel special at all D=
Theal
You have to remember, though, that once all the “noobs” can go wear full tier9 from farming heroics – you’ll be on your way to tier10 from Icecrown.
So don’t worry, you’ll always be one step ahead
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Being in a small casual guild, I think the best change Blizzard ever did, was opening up the raids to smaller groups (10 man raids). i’m so happy I finally have a shot at going these places, while still being able to be in a small personal ands social guild
Totally agree about the 10-mans, they’re the best change ever apart from making clams stackable.
However, I do miss being able to spot a “pro” raider from afar. It never bothered me that people can get equivalent gear from emblems but I do wish it wasn’t actual tier gear we were buying. Even if it had identical stats it’d still be better, imo, to take one look at someone and say “That guy’s really well geared from running more heroics than is healthy” or “Ooh, that guy has completed ToGC25, I shall show him my boobs”.
Conclusion: Give us awesome emblem gear but make it look different to the raiding gear. Sorted.
There is two difficulties to raids and instances, now technically 4 for raids. You do a normal instance you get blues, do heroic get one epic at the end. Both take time and effort to get gear and it takes longer to get epics from just running heroics so I think its cool atleast everyone can do it even people without a top of the range PC or are in a guild full of friends. I remember pre BC WoW where I was stuck in greens and the odd blue that I had bought or lucky to get from an drop because 1. My PC wasnt good enough for the 40man raids and 2. I was in a guild that didnt really raid and if I even thought about joining a hardcore raiding guild they would look at my gear and laugh evil people.
Hardcore raiders will always be better geared than non hardcore raiders so nothing to worry about its all good about the gear I think lets everyone enjoy the game, Wish some of the raids was a little harder atleast but hey thats what heroic mode is for hehe.
Just got to remember the badge vendors normally dont give all the items possible some you have to use lower gear to fill the spots or drops. Just have to wait and see what happens, hard to cater for millions of people all wanting to get the most out of their money I do hope the lich king fight is worthwhile though, thats one thing im looking forward too its not the items or the epics its the actually fact im doing it that keeps me going the epics just make it possible.
I fully agree with this blog… the sense of progression, the awe I felt when I first looked at tier 6 gear when I was levelling up and the excitement of the “unknown” knowing that it would be a while before I ever got to see BT if at all made this game 10x more exciting. Epics are the new blues, which suggests Blizzard should consider making legendary the new epic, and have a new level of gear to replace legendary.
I can’t help but feel that in the end, you raid to meet the highest level of gear and experience all that the game has to offer. I’m normally a fan of equality, but in a game I can live with people being better than me, and me being better than others. I remember the pride I had standing around in my tier 6 and having people inspect me as they walked by; I remember feeling like my character stood out slightly. Now not only am I just like every other priest, but every other mage and warlock as well.
I also disagree that you’re stuck in a dead-end situation when you’ve got bad gear and the only way to get better is raid. I joined Angels of Ares, back in TBC, when I had 3 epics and they were mid way through SSC/TK. If I can join a top-end guild, why can’t others? It’s doable, people just need to put some effort into their application.
I feel the game is becoming more homogenized by the second, which is drawing away from the friendly competition and celebration of players that we used to experience in Vanilla and TBC. It’s a shame.
I think the whole emblem system is awesome for people that are gearing up, I remember being in a guild at the start of wotlk, I just hitted 80 and officers were moaning at people to gear up. Back at that time the emblems didn’t drop yet from heroics, so I was kinda forced to buy epics from auction house and to do the same gay instances over and over. Now that you can turn in the emblems I think they definetly help guilds with progressing easier. There is one but tho, I think the Tier sets you can buy should be 2 levels below the current Tier. That would mean if Tier 10 would be available that the highest Tier you can buy would be Tier 8.
They did it like this in TBC with the PvP gear and it kinda worked, it helped the people that really liked arena but just didn’t have the gear to compete in the arena.
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Without bothering the people running around in the latest arena gear with rating requirement.
PvE Never meant much to me, so therefor my comparing to PvP gear
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t feel as nostalgic as it did in TBC to down a boss, but same goes for everything in the game. TBC was just better and the sooner you accept it, the better
Nisala, what about people who don’t want to join a raiding guild? What abotu people who are perfectly happy in a social guild? What about people too young to join a raiding guild? What about people who don’t play enough hours each day to join a raiding guild? Are you saying we should just stop them enjoying the game?
If they aren’t raiding, then why would they need raiding gear?
In the raiding sense? They don’t.
But there is fun in upgrading your gear. There is some self-satisfying smile that comes from having a shiny purple weapon or new kick ass shoulders.
WOW is a game that is about having fun. They might not need the gear for raids, but if it gives them fun than that’s a good change.
I agree with Tethane. I started out in TBC and the whole atmosphere seemed different, seeing a warlock in full T6 was worthy of a comment in g/chat as it was not often seen. It honestly did not bother me that I would never own a T6 item. Yes, it would have been great seeing the content but I was content with just seeing Brutallus prance around whilst doing the bombing dailies on the isle and merely wondering, whether there will be a day where I would actually fight him.
Even now in WOTLK I was more than happy with just receiving Emblems of Heroism from heroics. When I eventually did step into Ulduar and received my first emblem of conquest and won some lucky rolls on some gear, I felt proud that I had even gotten this far. Especially since I am by no means a raider.
I can see where Blizzard is coming from, although maybe an idea would have been leave the badges of Heroism from heroics, however in the early raids OS, Naxx (10 man) award the badges of valor and Ulduar (10) badges of conquest.
The feeling of progression has gone, newly dinged 80s are farming TOC other heroics like mad and jumping straight into TOC 10 skipping all the other raids.
Yes there is the “what about the casual people that dont have the time to raid?” line. Most guilds with enough 80′s do schedule the odd 10 man which is perfectly suited for the casual. I am in a guild now where most of the members have full-time jobs, children, wife/husband aggro and they do manage to do 2 raids a week even though the majority of the members can only play for about 3 hours a night. Yes they are “extremely casual” and yes they were also able to progress from Heroics, Naxx, OS to TOC 10 man, before the emblem changes.
Also I know plenty of players, myself included that enjoy the game without the uber gear!.
Funnily enough I have encountered more elitist players in WOTLK than in TBC when raiding was not really catered for the average social, casual player.
Oh and I forgot to add was on a positive note regarding the emblem changes, this is great for people that are regular raiders but dont want to drag their alts through the content that they have done to death on their mains.
Despite having benefitted from the emblem change, I was not a fan of it when it came out. It immediatley ended Ulduar as a regular raid, as everyone did HCs to get Conquest (plus daily for Triumph), and aimed to do TotC.
I agree with above, it should always be 2 tiers lower, which means people at least have to do some raid content before being insta-geared (yes I know it can take time, but not a lot) for the latest raids.
I also feel more then anything now, that Heroics shouldn’t change, leave as they are now, and let all raids drop triumph.
Heroics are dull, bring and in the main full of elitist mongs. When I dinged 80 on my pally tank/healer I was not allowed in a HC because my health wasn’t 30K. I was told I couldn’t heal beacause my mana pool was below 20K. This is in HCs I did at the start of WotLK with a guild tank with 19K, healer hitting 16K mana with no problems.
This is a contributing factor to lack of tanks and healers, and proliferating DPS – which many are so sub par despoite getting this free gear.
I know I sound very elite now, but unfortunately it is the state of the game at the moment. With most HCs being face-rolls, thogh raids are not massively difficult, too many people are gearing via HCs, pugging into raids – they have gear – and they are just dieing because they don’t know the basics (and I mean basic) of taking adds, moving out of fire, not attacking dragons from the back etc.
I also feel (and maybe slightly off-topic) the Link Acievement or no response is stupid. If you don’t have the achievement, how are you to get it.
This is compounded by the fact that you can get loot via emblems (“pass a gear check”), and basically turn-up and die in a raid. I know people have got into raids via gear checks, particulalrly DPS and they can barely hit 3K in full tier9 (and I don’t mean the tanks).
Anyways one can only hope that ICC brings back more tactics, and they ramp it up some and bring back Crowd Control.
However I guarantee you will see on day 1 of patch:
/2 LFM ICC10 link Ach or gtfo
and then another will join my ignore list
:O dont start on the Link Achievement trend! LOL
Simply put the emblems help people to raid who other wise wouldnt be able to, For instance me for one. My guild is not hardcore raiding and tbh only reason half can raid is because of the change in Emblems. I dont see why good players should be held back because they can not raid so many hours per week. I know how to play, I am a decent player so why should I be held back by staying in a guild full of my friends who I have fun with? Kara was fun, but it was also annoying spending time after time after time of doing the same bosses running the same way every week to run out of time and have to do it all over again the next week, Gearing people up slowly who then wouldnt be able to come next time or worse leave the guild. If you dont like the way the emblem system is now, Dont use it just raid simple as really lol. If you get so many badges from heroics use them on gems or something if its that annoying, just like the LF Achieve just ignore them
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I dont think anyone here is really, really annoyed with them, of course in life everything has good points aswell as bad. The main point of this topic is that the sense of progression has gone. Which I think is completly true but hell yes the emblem system is convenient.
As Necrall mentioned above it is a great feeling to upgrade your gear, be it PVE or PVP gear however, would it not be that much more satisfying to get the gear from the approprite emblems in said raid or even with regards to PVP gear, grinding battlegrounds or getting high ratings? I dont know for me, that calls for a pat on the back.
I cant and I dont raid at the moment GMT + 2 is hideous for me, to be honest I am not even trying to upgrade my gear PVE wise. I honestly dont feel like running heroic after same heroic which you will do just as much as running the same raids to gear progressively. Recently I have been doing battlegrounds to death to get some deadly gear so I may live through a kidney shot, so regarding (somewhat off topic) I think grinding heroics for emblems to specifically buy PVP gear is a bit off.
Of course though with every change Blizzard will implement there will always be people not happy with these changes and every camp, be it the yes or no camp will have valid points.
Sorry forgot to add I was meaning uber PVP gear straight away.
I have no doubt that Blizzard are simply reacting to the wishes of the masses, and if that keeps my favourite game going, I don’t mind. Recall back to vanilla days though. You had a choice of either hardcore raiding (there was no casual raiding, for want of a better term), or running UBRS/Strat/Scholo ad nauseum to complete your tier 0 set. Then of course we had the Tier 0.5 quest lines introduced, the pinnacle of which wasn’t doable for the average pug (Strat timed), assuming you got the tier 0 drop in the first place.
The game isn’t the property of either a “casual” or “hardcore” player base, and there’ll have to be give and take, but overall the game is in a better place now than ever regarding gearing in my opinion.
I’m with Nisala here on this as i was in the same guild with him during TBC and for the most part we was really happy where we was at and its not hard to accept that the others had the time to raid more therefore should of got more.
I think its kinda degraded the game in this current state, for example do you expect to learn how to fly in just a months time by just putting in 3 hour’s a week? Maybe you could but thats down to the person and with what you do with your time but you certainly would have to accept that if you dont have “time” to raid then theres not really anypoint in having the end game tier, not to be mean but theres no real sense of accomplishment if you have everything thrown at you.
On Jeina now i got my full T9 Holy set (Retri i had already since its my main spec) and that took me 2 and a half days (sure I spent time on it but like all things in life you only get what you put in) and now im working on the prot gear, to me though it seems unreasonably easier, yet i can see that this patch was a gear reset to Ice Crown weather or not rightfully so, i’m not so fussed about these casuals getting the gear I’m not one to brag I’ve been a casual for most of TBC and I knew my place and it was still enjoyable, but the thing that gets me is players that would get said T9 and still be completely incompitant with it, mostly cause its indesereved yet i guess they did put there time to it aswell with the heroics :S.
Hard to make a choice and i understand that Blizzard are trying to get all of there customers up to level 80 and in endgame content but is that really what the aim should be of everyone, it is kinda forced apon with the mind set of some players.
And sorry for the wall of text
Jeina.
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