The Stonemansons have been having a rough time of late, Mezzy has now been reinstated as Guild Master after leaving the Guild in Outrage’s hands a while back, progression was good, securing them a spot in the top 10 raiding guilds on the server.
Recently Outrage (for reasons I can only speculate) cleared the guild bank of around 25k and /gquit, nice work Outrage, you raid by the side of the Stonemansons players, inevitably become friends with many of them and then steal their wallet when their backs are turned. Whatever the reason for this…. its still bloody low.
The raider base thinned and recruitment is now being upped a notch to strengthen there team in preparation for Icecrown Citadel……. I want to wish them good luck.
Outrage seems to still be on Emerald Dream but understandably unguilded, expect incoming name and server change. Hope that 25k was worth it.
The Stonemansons recruitment details can be found at www.stonemansons.tk
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It really saddens me when you hear of things like this. It just makes me wonder what kind of person is that in real life. Hopefully karma will set in. which generally it does. I am pretty sure a realm transfer and name change will follow. Sorry to see this happen to any guild. Lets just hope he doesn’t get a bright idea and transfer over to our Horde. Best of luck Stonemasons
This is one good reason why it’s a shame you can just transfer and / or change name… stuff like this doesn’t have any consequences
A story always has 2 sides…Heard different stories.
Regardless of a “reason” robbing 25k isn’t right, if you have another story feel free to elaborate….
Heard it was Outrage asking Dartheuxxa or something like that asking for permission to take 15k gold and he insisted or something. Outrage joined my guild a few days ago, i’ll keep him away from banking rights anyways, just to make sure
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That makes no sense……….. The GM was asking for 15k of the guilds money? Be careful not to get judged by the company you keep……………………….oh wait!
Don’t get sarcastic with me. If you lack the ability to look at an individual instead of a group then you ain’t even worth my time imo so.
He seems to be a nice guy and the whole story he gave me is to long to type here.
Aslong as someone is nice to me ill be nice to them.
People can change anyways, so what if he ninja’d the guildbank, he was GM for ages, he deserves a good ammount of gold, also heard there was alot of drrraaaaaaaaama going on when it all happened so.
Still no excuse to be honest, and as for the sarcasm, do you not feel I have good reason to be hesitant about the members of your guild, past experiences given…..
Just because someone is a GM doesn’t give them the right to the guild banks cash…. did they contribute it…. no, all the members of the guild did. I am a GM, I see the property of the guild bank as the property of the guild members, not as my own personal fund. If someone takes on leadership of a guild for this reason and is expectant of financial rewards then they clearly have no business in that position of responsibility. It’s embezzlement at the end of the day, if you did it in the real world you would be hauled up in front of a judge pretty damn quickly. Now before I hear the “but its only a game” crap remember, that the guild bank contributions have time, effort and generosity attached to them, not pixel time, effort and generosity but real, from real people. One person taking advantage of those traits is wrong, however you wrap it up.
So you judge me on the company i keep?
Nope, not at all, but I have the pleasure of knowing you, I mearly advised you (in a joking way) that often one bad egg can stink out the whole fridge………..
Hey all, subject in question here… deary deary me what is this crap?
Obviously it is clear I did leave the guild, and obviously it is mezzy that has posted this (suprise suprise) – I didn’t even know about this post until recently so now seeing as its christmas i’ll give you all the info you seek
Bit about me:
16 year old male from England, currently studying A levels and have been officering/leading guilds in wow for the past 3 years or so… Have been playing wow for over 5 years in which time I have met too many great people to even begin to count
[Mezzy being one of these]
My officering originated from a guild back in TBC named “Valium” where I became very close to a player named ‘Korma’ and I did so much for the guild back then, eventually getting to the point where I had the chance to become GM due to Korma taking a break and then moving house… The guild was in a very bad way at the time, attempting to make the transition from casual raiders to hardcore, and one of the worst things I have ever had to decide was the break up that guild
So following that I was guildless licking my wounds for a while and taking a break from raids, focusing on alts and playing Warcraft 3 battlenet quite alot more…
Before the start of WorLK I told mezzy that I would consider joining him in the next expansion, but he’d have to wait for my answer – wasn’t too keen on the drama that occurs within guilds anytime soon… After much persuasion Mezzy finally had me join but I told him it was on the terms of me not becoming an officer anytime soon or at all. Following a week or 2 I think it was, I suddenly was promoted and a little distressed as I did not want this but I gave it a try… Galdon, the Naxx raid leader of the time came in with some problems so I stepped up my game and took it one step further and helped Mezzy get out of the mess and assisted raid leading, increasing my influence within the guild and getting closer to Mezzy. Over time things came up but we overcame them and started doing very well and it was a great guild to be part of. Dartheuxxa joined the guild and myself and Mezzy became close to this guy – a superb chap indeed, and we decided to promote him to an officer. Things once again came up and Mezzy was unable to lead the guild anymore (University workload) so he entrusted me to take over the guild, but I decided not to do this totally alone and opted for Dartheuxxa to do this with me, but i’d bethe one to take the title and pass the final word from what is decided. So from here things were great and I enjoyed leading the great people within the guild and damn, best thing on wow for me for a long time! Some problems came up, and mezzy left the guild but we continued but recently problems came up, within a week of being at our best we went to our worst and I didnt have the time to sort it with the amount of work I had on, so i opted out to try to get into ICC, to raid but not to lead… and so another tale begins:
Myself and Mezzy – the best of friends for one heck of a long time, week by week coming closer together.
and we come closer together as 3 and take control of an amazing guild…
Dartheuxxa joins the chicken fanclub
We start making plans for the future for holidays together etc then…
We needed someone within the guild that wasn’t part of our main 10 man group already full time, to take up the challenge of leading a second 10 man group. We asked via our forums and one of our players ‘Áce’ stepped forward, and so we tried him out. His leading styles were different from both mine and mezzy’s – more shouty and not so liked within the guild but I did see potential and kept running some tests and got to know him well. Mezzy almost totally opposed him and made sure I knew about it on many occasions which ofc I did not like at all because I was friends with the both of them :S
As Mezzy always kept saying ‘when you haven’t listened to me before, things bite you in the ass’ – well this just was not true of most occasions so I dismissed his comments and remained a tester of áce’s leadership whilst still being friends with mezzy, but things starting to get rougher between us all because of this and mezzy having more work on so being overworked, with a number of jobs on the go too to pay for uni.
I took over as GM after quite alot of discussion and well i know its hard to step down from GM as founder so I allowed for some leadership to still come through even though mezzy was no longer leader but this wasn’t good enough in the end it seems – bit of missjudgement by me. In the end I had people saying to me, well are you actually GM because mezzy is still getting his word through on everything, and its not all good – He was tired from work and judgements were not at best, and with him saying stuff to me about ace and pushing through with guild leadership making the guild members unhappy, I had to pull him up on a few things and knock him back just a little. So then he started to dislike me, and things got bad between us and he was making a fool out of himself to the guild and alot of people were questioning me why he was still there and why he was acting up like that – inevitably he left, and so I left him to cool off for a while.
I figured that if i left him for a while to sort things out irl and just to sort his head out it would be good then to talk to him properly – some time later he took down our guild forums with 2 days notice, making us struggle as our new guild site was nowhere near completed – but we did manage to just about get around this a little, although it was then harder to recruit. Long term members started to go for all kinds of reasons, personal or just issues with some people within the guild, and also short term members that didn’t fit in (not high enough dps or what ever) obviously had to be removed after trial.
We lacked players joining and got to a point where we had to scrap recruitment via the web and just invite people – worst it had ever been by far and all about 3 weeks or so before the release of patch 3.3.0…
Obviously then it becomes hard as GM and decisions are tough, made tougher by the work load I had at the time with assignments due in and mock exams inc so I was unable to dedicate enough time to rebuild… Admittedly I should have communicated better here, but I did things my way and those within the guild know about this – Mezzy was not there so he can keep himself to himself on that one, and basicly I left because I have raided hardcore for the entire expansion and didnt want to miss the last major raid [IceCrown Citadel]
So I left, and I did look at some guild and applied to Nervous Energy but noone seems to need dps warriors atm, but then on top of that I kinda liked not having to raid because of the amount of work I had on so I decided to stop looking and become a casual player and mend some bridges where I could – I do have a channel where I keep in tough with some of The Stonemansons squad
and it’s all good apart from this crap about me.
Some extra details:
Things were bad ofcourse and looking like the guild failed for raiding so one decision I made, because my task was to think for the best for the whole guild, like almost every decision I made – I decided to have things in place JUST IN CASE it had to come to a disband. Disband may seem far fetched but there really are 2 ways to look at this from my perspective.
1) People want to carry on regardless of what happens and want to rebuild without raids for a while.
2) Most people cant be bothered and would like to raid and it would be best to let them move on to something better (better atmosphere etc.)
So as a precaution, because one of the biggest thing people are concerned about within a raiding guild is the guild bank – I asked myself: What happens to the bank if we disband? Things need to be done fairly because there is so much in there and noone will be allowed to take more than they diserve, especially not me – I was allowed to do that way too much with the loot within the guild as it was with our old dkp system – Which I changed to stop this (If you want more details on this then ask, and ill explain)
So I made a spreadsheet, noting down the players that had been with us a long time and those that raided alot etc and came up with a fair distribution, which I showed to both Captive (friend irl – was officer for long time and great raider) and dartheuxxa. The distribution was for the total 110000g in there at the time and then a percentage was made for running sales amounts (amount recieved per 1g of items sold to each player)
We agreed this was a fair distribution – officers at I think it was 10k, dartheuxxa at I think 12k ish and myself on 15k, then darkangel at 7.5k due to him creating guild website and then long term raiders (not many left at this point) at 5k or less ish.
So it did come to a point where I inevitably said – ok guys were disbanding tonight – In which case the reaction was – HELL NO! which ofcourse was great because that meant it was option a) and inevitably GM was passed over and those that didnt want to stay left the guild, including me.
When leaving dartheuxxa had said I could take the 15k and go, and so without thinking anything of it more than well ok thankyou, you have been a good m8 for a long time and yes I have done alot for the guild so thankyou for the gesture and for helping me out while I have alot of work on, meaning I don’t have to grind – I had the 15k – deposited 800g back in for 2 stacks of flasks at guild price of 20g each as we had done for a long time and also captive was leaving and he was very long term and great he also had his 10k therefor I withdrew 25k in all… I did also say to others on my plan, if you are going now then fine you are entitled to this money but no others went so it was left at that – I understand that a few did leave later but I wasnt part of that then…
I spoke to people after that and explained things as they logged online and we are fine with eachother and at understanding.
I also wished mezzy luck with the guild because I know he can fix it because he build it, but sadly he didnt accept my words (I would like to become great friends again as we once were) and I do hope that this post gives people a little more understanding.
I have thought long and hard on this, and I think this pretty much covers everything I need to say:
I was a great and well respected GM, leading amazing people through raid content and these will be some of the most memorable times on wow for me – You guys were brilliant and I do hope those that were here long enough can still see me as the great person you did see come through on many occasions – I was a big softy and very understanding – mezzy did get me to toughen up a bit if I was to be GM but all was good in the end
goodluck to you all and I would hope to join as casual at some point if mezzy would permit it – still need to speak to ya m8 hehe – I have spoken with dartheuxxa extensively and we are on good terms, but if not then goodluck to you all, I hear you are picking up.
‘Peace’ out as GM
‘Peace’ out as raider
‘Peace’ out to you all, and I hope I didnt make you fall asleep
If we ever have a longest comment competition, you win
I’m actually really impressed that you bothered to explain what happened. From the rumours flying round the realm when this all happened I suspect things could have been communicated more clearly to the guildies who weren’t part of the group divvying up bank funds, but we live and learn.
Oh and merry christmas to you all!
Going away for 6 days to stop with bro that I haven’t seen in about 3-4 months so i’ll check this forum again when I get back…
it will be happy new year too – New decade, new start I hope
Exams in Jan though so what a good start that is… 
Speak to me soon mezzy!
I am to impressed with you taking the time out to explain this, for the record I am not Mezzy! I got this information from a few sources… but obviously not ALL the information.
And yes, gratz to the longest comment ever!
Hello everyone,
well, since this has been made public and I do like fairness, I decided to provide an extra insight on the events.
I did like Vinnayo’s comment: “A story always has 2 sides…Heard different stories.” And yes, I vouch for that, and even though Outrage’s post may be deeply informative, the situation is much more simpler and it should have NEVER come this far.
I’ll try and be as brief as possible:
Outrage was indeed one good Raid Leader, very knowledgeable on tactics, knew how to play well his class and was very helpful in many ways. When the guild really took off, it was due to the guild’s effort as a group, and we quickly built up a team, capable of clearing ToTGC-25. However, personal differences had to come in the way and so, his ways became much more “independant” requiring less and less, the intervention from his officers.
Outrage became “Obsessed” (is just a tag) about “making the right tough decisions”, which really were not entirely necessary; and I think that pride spoke a lot higher than trying to do whatever was necessary to solve the problems that arose.
There was no need whatsoever to create any spreadsheet to divide the guild money amongst the guild members; and as I said to Outrage the night he created that document, I said: “don’t go thinking about disbanding the guild, no need for this spreadsheet, we’re not there yet”.
To my susprise, the next day, as soon as he logged in, despite my MSN messages and in-forum private messages to Outrage, he posted a long thread in our forums informing that the guild was going to disband.
Totally unprecedented, unadvised, unnecessary and flat out wrong, since he knew that many members did not want to leave and that they still had faith that these “dark times” would soon be over. But, as soon as he logged in, he wanted to keep his plans about breaking the news to the guild.
As soon as he started to talk about the disband, I whispered him asking him to stop, to talk privately on Ventrilo, to not create a fuss, confusion, tension on a situation that was already packed with it. And so, the turmoil took broke loose.
Obviously I did not like that one bit and basically all his reasons, for “trying to disband” was because he wanted to make sure he could raid ICC content (which in many ways, that can be considered as an overwhelming act of selfishness) but still…
I tried everything I could to persuade him to stop doing that and if he really wanted to ensure his future in the game progress, he could just pass me leadership and go about on his own or into whatever guild he thought it was best; but he kept on saying that he would help others get into other guilds (wtf? :O) and for those who wanted to stay, the guild would then be changed from a raiding to social guild.
His proposal was not accepted by a single member of the guild and for others, well, they could just not believe what he was doing; I was having whispers from ppl saying: “wtf is he doing? – does he really want to destroy the guild? – I cannot believe the GM wants to do this to a guild and then leave?” etc. etc. etc.
Obviously there was no way anyone could explain the reasons for his actions which independently from how you look at it, it was completely unreasonable and illogical.
At the end, he whispered me saying that the reason for doing that, was because he wanted to “ensure” that those who stayed behind, would show a strong conviction in staying and by doing so, he was doing me (the guild) a favour in knowing exactly who, we could rely on. Those were his reasons for doing what he did.
And with regards the withdrawing the money from the GBank well, while trying to calm everyone down and to not make anyone panic or just leave the guild without warning (something that actually happened while having the conversation) I decided to try and cut the ordeal short and reestablish the calm amongst the members, as fast as I could.
At that point, Outrage tells me that he is taking 15k for himself plus another 10k for another officer. And at that time, after all this was already going on, I just wanted the confusion over before more of the guild could be damaged. So I said: “fine, take it”.
Now, let me share my personal considerations about the whole thing:
1) even though I agreed at the last minute about you taking that money (something that was NOT discussed or agreed upon, since you basically you were taking it, it is just plain wrong even considering taking monry from the guild knowing that people will stay behind and you’re leaving possibly to a better guild; not to mention that you create that spreadsheet in the event of a guild disband, which ultimately defeats the whole purpose of sharing the money amongst guildies since the guild didn’t disband.
2) you broke the rules and ethical conduct of being a Guild Leader which is to look after the guild and always look for the good and benefit of a whole. Of course you, like anyone, has also the right to choose what’s best for you and that may very well be, leaving the guild for something more if you wish, but don’t decide to leave while creating a complete mess, announcing a guild disband which not only would confuse people in a situation already chaotic but would also make sure that our reputation as a guild, would reflect disorganization and uncomprehensible behaviour from former Guild Master;
3) on our last conversation I thought I gave you all the information so you could understant exactly the consequences of your actions; reading your reply here, it doesn’t seem like you understood the whole picture and seriousness of your doings and negative impact on those who stayed behind. Also, reading your comment: “I also wished mezzy luck with the guild because I know he can fix it because he build it, but sadly he didnt accept my words”. Now I’m really sorry but this really pisses me off! Not only did you make a mess while leaving your former guild for which you were the GM, taking some money from the Guild Bank, while thinking of applying to a better guild, you wanted to wish good luck to a guy who was going to return to a guild and pick up the pieces of whatever you left behind… “good luck” to The Stonemansons’ founder because you know he can fix things????!!! :O Are you for real? I cannot believe you just said that…
There are many guilds who had their leaders leaving for due to, whatever reasons…none of them (as far as I’m aware) made such a complete mess while doing it. The way to handle these situations is to have a council meeting (which we didn’t have) announce your leaving (which you didn’t do), asking for your officer’s opinions (which you didn’t do) and trying to come up with an alternative (if any) and decide whom to pass the leadership to (which you also didn’t do). Once you have all this figured out, you announce in guild chat about your decision, nominate whoever is taking leadership, wish farewell to your guild mates and leave. That’s it! That’s all you had to do.
But no, instead you come out saying that a GM has to make tough decisions when necessary, that you wanted to “test” people out to ensure they would stay behind after you left. Well, that’s complete bullshit and I told you that night when we had that 2-hour talk on Ventrilo.
You claim that you had to make tough decisions; you claim to have done the best you could do when leaving, with these misplaced, self-righteous comments about your actions. There was no need for any “tough decisions” to be made, if only you had solved your differences with Mezzy whenI told you to, in countless occasions, and did what was best for the guild and not prioritizing your own interests before everyone else’s, and that’s what I ultimately cannot forgive in you, your overwhelming selfishness and blindness, that prevents you from seeing your actions for what they really are; and instead I have to read this thread where you attempt to justify yourself in saying that it was the right thing to do, in the way it was done.
Well I’m sorry but you got it all wrong.
On a personal level: I can say that yes, all the things were said are true; Outrage is a good guy and we used to have a blast in our raids; Ventrilo was always full of laughter, the ambient was extremely enjoyable and raiding was a pure pleasure.
So, I will also take this opportunity and say that, I do believe that anyone who makes a mistake, deserves a second chance; and yes, everyone should be heard and have his reasons listened to. But I also believe that if you want to show that you have learned from your mistakes and you honestly repent, and if you want to make up for it, you should do whatever it takes to do that; if you are really interested in making that happen, like you have said. “Speak to me soon mezzy!”
So let me help you with that:
if your intentions are pure, I suggest you speak with Mezzy, sort your differences out, apologize to those whom you have jeopardized in the guild, and give back the money which, in all fairness, really doesn’t belong to you (as I don’t recall the guild having requesting for a Temporal GM service which needs to be paid).
I apologize for making this the second longest post ever and I would like to close this thread by saying that I have no problems with you and yes, I do wish that things could go back to the way they were, but I guess that it’s up to you, now that you know how things developed, you should know how to fix things.
Furthermore, I like to thank you Thethane for creating this thread which I understand as an informative thread about the possible mis-conducts of players in WoW. Hopefully this is not the case, but a series of unfortunate events which lead to something unnecessary.
Also, you shouldn’t accuse Mezzy of creating this post when you don’t have any proof Outrage. The initial post was not signed by Mezzy so why accuse him? any attempts on going after him and accusing him of making this thread, again, tells me that you need to really think about your actions a little more.